I've spent the last couple of days writing various drafts of a blog posting response to the suggestion that there should be an RTR train set style box released. I've deleted every one. I can think of a wide multitude of stumbling blocks to the enterprise (from practical to legal to health and safety issues, oh and the store markup of 50%). And, given that we are a widely varied lot, I don't even think we could agree on the locomotive that should be in their, let alone the wagons.
Now, I probably shouldn't be the one to shoot stuff down. My Ka from the ground up project is probably as daft as it gets and I'm not sure its going to work out in the end as there could well be some insurmountable hurdles (drive train is the one that springs to mind, though at least its at the start of the project and will kill it quick. its much better to fail at the start of a project than at the end)
And other thoughts; I really need to stop biovating and get back to the work bench, where not much has happened in the last couple of weeks.
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10 comments:
Would have enjoyed reading anyone of those postings, to enliven the day up here.
Ahh - I sense you have been afflicted by the curse of too much analysis being applied to what should be a simple "problem" to solve.
Perhaps we should take a leaf from the Brits again - their Model Rail mag released their Top 10 survey from a year ago of rail modellers choices for new locos, wagons, coaches etc in O OO & N scales.
The number of responses from N Scale was quite small (5% of total), and given their multitude of prototypes to pick from the preferences were suitably ecletic - their manufacturers however obviously value such input, & have already produced some items - similarly, their N Gauge Society has a couple of the items which ranked near the top.
My thoughts on the NZR TTn3.5 trainset concept had not traversed your plethora of intellectual challenges, like OSH, dealer mark-ups, choice of items etc etc.
I had simplistically assumed "we" would offer such a "set" through the Trackgang website or perhaps through Trademe - if model shops wanted to handle these they could purchase them off the "group", but not at a discount.
As to locos, rolling stock etc, I had assumed that most new modellers would plump ( be ecstatic for a diesel shunter loco (Ds) with say three 4 wheel wagons (La/Lc/J/Kp) & a 30' guards van ; with Paul W progressing his Da/Dc, then 'we" could offer a more modern image set with some bogie wagons instead, containers, or passenger cars etc.
Throw in some Noch/Preiser passengers/yard crew figures, a couple of laser cut buildings (station/goods shed), a circle of Peco track ( probably code 80) with a couple of manual points, & an RG controller and you are effectively there, some layout plan thoughts, a sub for NZMRG, maybe a few typical photos - & anything else which would make it simple to have a table top layout up & running
So thats still the challenge as I still see it- an RTR trainset in NZ120 by Xmas 2010 - could well hammer those Thomas sales.
I know! I know! We could put a face on the loco, thus infringing Thomas' copyright and generating MASSIVE publicity >:~) They would have to find us first in order to sue us....
By the time you factor in time/cost of assembly and the acquisition of accessories to provide RTR you are going to struggle to compete with the mainstream train sets on price.
Also why would the model shops touch it if they can't buy any cheaper than anyone buying direct, there is nothing in it for them and they are there after all to make a living.
If you want attract new modelers (read younger generation) to the scale, you need to think about providing something they are familiar with, a DC and bogie wagons? Not something that hasn't been seen for twenty or more years.
New modellers can come from any source. We should not assume that they are the young.
Let's face it; it is hard to get started modelling a NZ prototype in any scale. It always has been. You either need to scratch build or assemble difficult-to-build and expensive kits. Some enjoy that, but most find another prototype or hobby. The Guild only seems to be interested in the status quo - not in growing the pie. Greg's idea is to be applauded, because he is trying to grow the pie by making it easier to join us.
Yes there are obstacles, but the key point is that a new modeller (to the scale) can grab a locomotive and a few wagons and run a train. Those are the important bits. If there are problems supplying the rest of the stuff, maybe we should leave it.
Era has always been held up as (yet another) obstacle. It doesn't need to be. Most NZ locomotives and wagons have long lives. Take wagons as an example. The LC & KP ran in big numbers from the 60s to the 80s. The UK and ZA/ZL have run in reasonable numbers from the 70s to now. Produce all four and the 70s-80s modellers are well served. Other eras have a start. The DS is a good choice for a loco because it was a around for a long time and ran in both islands. The DC and DSC similarly so.
Cheers
Doug
I guess I am still living in that parallel NZ where one foolishly & mistakenly assumes Kiwis are keen to volunteer to do "good things".
Interminable debates on this blog, and in a host of other venues bemoan the lack of rtr models of NZ railway "stuff" which people opine will attract the next wave of modellers, old, middle & young into the hobby - almost everybody reminisces about their early exposure to a Hornby, Triang, Marklin "train set", then their progression towards the NZR ish prototype model scene.That is the way most of us have got going into the hobby - just think how much "cooler" it would have been to be able to rock up and buy an NZR table top railway in a box.
So the challenge still remains for a number of "us" to pool our respective capabilities & resources to develop an RTR NZ120 train set, with which to promote the scale.
As I have noted, the UK 2MM & N Gauge groups seem to be able to do this type of "filling in the gaps" stuff, which may not be attractive to consider for a full blown commercial operation. They achieve their goals by donation of some time/talent etc towards a common goal.
They have developed 30+ wagon kits, commissioned scores of wagon/coach/loco etch sets,produced a number of locomotive kits etc.
The NZ120 site examples of the J & IA wagons displays an innovative approach to expansion of available items, in an affordable fashion.
So,rather than find reasons not to do something along these lines, lets pool our combined intelligence and abilities to produce a Xmas train set in NZ120.
Unfortuantely Greg, the Parallel Universe where volunteering does happen probably doesnt have much of a concept of "money"....
To even get 10 starter sets on the market to sell, someone needs to come up with the money up front for 10 08 chassis, 10 DS etches from Wolsley Works, 10 KP kits, 10 LC kits, 10 UB kits, 10 Guards van kits and then spend the time to assemble those items. Even just to stump up the money for the locomotives alone would be (I would guess)beyond most of the people on this blog. Someone will really have to "volunteer" not only their time but also their money (with no proven tiem frame for return) for this to have a real chance of going.
But just to show I am not a complete Grinch, I will put my name forward to "invest in" the buildings which is a level of investment I would be in a position to make...a laser cut Station shelter (similar to Studholme to go with the 1980's theme), goods shed and loading bank.
Well done that man !! another "volunteer" - a further chink in the wall perchance - given I am at last approaching a state of semi-retirement, as I indicated earlier I had already volunteered to contribute an RTR Drewry Ds loco to the NZ120 "train set" - I am also prepared to assist in the 'assembly" of other bits & pieces, the packaging and the organising of the logistics to bring it all together - 10-12 sets as a first hit-out was what I was envisaging as doable by a small cooperative - I have some laser cut lineside buildings ex a demented foray for the big 9MM market (which resulted in nil sales) , which I can rescale and throw one or two into the box too - think there is a small goods shed there, plus a yard office, class 6 halt etc.
now who else wants to climb aboard?
I'm in, just trying to figure out how I might best contribute.
Shouldn't we throw this over to NZ120.org to involve the wider group?
Just remember though that at the resent convention, J wagon bodies were available for purchase from all and sundry, but from what i hear, no-one walked around a purchase.
If you're going to get into this sort of venture, you'll need to publicise it everywhere just to get the minimum sales you speak of.
As well as that there will need to be at least some form of warranty/backup for the new entrants. From my own childhood memories, with my first set being 'N', the biggest problem was reliability.....
I had already placed my order for a 'rake" of J5 wagons well before the Convention, so wasn't about to buy anymore there; besides I had to go to Warbirds as well so the Exchequer was under real pressure when coupled with those NZ120 etch loco pilot body orders - they have since arrived, and are in various stages of assembly, awaiting etched/compensated chasses & wheelsets from the UK.
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